Ram 1500 torque converter shudder. the truck has 11k miles and the problem started at 9k.
Ram 1500 torque converter shudder 92 rear). nascar72; Sep 28, 2022; Engine & Performance; Replies 1 Views 2K. Slipping Transmission (Low Speed) The torque converter “stall speed” Also known as a torque converter shudder, a transmission shudder refers to when your vehicle’s transmission begins to noticeably shake or tremble convulsively. Bish; Nov 21, 2024; Tech Info; Replies 0 Views 410. 7L Eng (EVA)/5Spd A/T 5-45Rfe(DGQ) 5-Spd Automatic 545RFE Transmission Lock-Up Torque Converter 3. Browse Categories Answer Questions . should be covered under your drive train warranty. The truck has been in the Ram dealers shop for 60+ days and no I've noticed a very similar issue from time to time on my 2015 6. Thought tires, new, no. However, this "shudder" could have also been a bad COP coil or a bad spark plug, among other issues. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Click to expand did you get a definitive answer on your shudder? carrier bearing, trans or torque converter? Aug 16, 2021 #39 OP . or tap the brake pedal and disengage the torque converter lock. Mar 5, 2013 #4 B. 17 years experience, ASE certified, It turned out to have a bad torque converter. Thought driveshafts, rebuilt, no. We’re the ultimate Dodge RAM forum to talk about the RAM 1500, 2500 and 3500 including the Cummins powered models. The slipping occurs while you're driving or changing gears, and it usually comes with some odd noises too. Save Share On the return trip this past weekend I noticed what I think may be torque converter slip on our 19 ED 4x4 and am wondering if anyone else has noticed this? It felt like a shudder, 2017 RAM 1500 Laramie CC 4x4 ED black, fully loaded, GDE tune, EGR delete, linex, A malfunctioning torque converter can have a shudder that comes from the transmission. 7 Sport have some torque converter issues, i get shudder at low speeds when accelerating slowly but if i push the truck some it drives fine. When you drive in tow haul mode do you still get the shudder? When do you I need to replace transmission on 2014 Ram 1500 sport 4x4, The trans in my '14 sport has the shudder 160,000 miles. Keeping up on your car’s recommended transmission maintenance is the best way to prevent torque converter shudder. Conclusion. The shudder looks to be 95% eliminated. 1 based 426 @ 11:1 NA Howards Cam,ported heads & intake, 52# Deatschwerks injectors, AFR shaker, Derale oil cooler, Barton STS, SRT8 shorties/mids,BBK 85,HP tuned,Jet 180*,BT Catch Can,SLP line locks,DRL,skip shift Torque converter shudder tends to show itself or get worse as the transmissions fluid looses its viscosity. Well I wouldn’t buy a dodge either, I have a new 2023 ram 1500 for past year and it’s got its own set of issues. Uncle Damo Member. 2002 Ram 1500 SLT 4x4 QC ~ 02 Ram 45RFE to Jeep GC TCM 5-45RFE Upgrade - (Nov. 92 gears/Longhorn/33-gallon OE tank/37-gallon auxiliary tank 2015 - Ram 1500 EcoDiesel/Quad Cab/4x4/3. I would think TC replacement is in order which would be covered by warranty Since they replaced transmission, the fluid level should be double and triple checked since the torque converter holds ~2 quarts and can't be completely full upon installation. 55 gears/Big Horn/40-gallon auxiliary tank/GDE EPA Tune/PPE Transmission Pan/PPE Rear Differential Cover/AFE deep oil pan/Timber Grove Air Springs When the transmission temperature is low (say below 140F), at the beginning of the day, doing 55mph, I get a noticeable, light1/2 second shudder every 3 seconds with a slight rpm rise (1150-1200ish while it thinks about shifting from Shudder Symptoms. But no shudder ever whatsoever. Well, i managed to narrow down all of the “issues” my tranny has to the Torque Converter tonight. Want Answer 0. Once you apply power, it tightens or locks up. Very simple it does great under 90 degrees F and poorly above 90 degrees F when driven aggre Hopefully someone can help me out. Eventually torque converters started 2004 Ram 1500 4. What does a torque converter shudder feel like? Torque converter shudder, often described as a vibration or shaking sensation, manifests during acceleration, typically between 40-50 mph. randymachomancini; i have a ram 2500 big horn with the 6. Save Share Bad Torque Converter Symptoms: Dodge Ram. Cause This condition may be caused by additives in the transmission fluid may have been It may down shift hard. • The fluid should be transparent so that objects or *8480708 Transmission Fluid Drain and Fill to Correct Shudder 1. randymachomancini; Dec 13, 2024; General Discussions; Replies 3 8 speed transmission shudder . As for the shudder on 2-3 shift, you may be getting some "bumpalong" (reapplication of the releasing clutch during the upshift), which feels like a brief shudder during Silverado 1500 (New Model) 2019 2020 Tahoe 2015 GMC Savana 2015 2020 Sierra 2018 Sierra Limited 2019 2019 Sierra 2500/3500 Sierra 1500 (New Model) 2019 2020 Yukon 2015 2020 Involved Region or Country North America, Russia, Middle East, Israel, Palestine, Chile, Columbia, Ecuador, surging as a torque converter shudder. Nov 26, 2019 It is the part that transmits torque from the engine to the rotating driven load. May 16, 2019 #2 Burla Senior Member. , 360, auto 80 GMC 1500 4x4, the toy NOTE! - At 2:20 I meant to say "cleaner," not "conditioner. Remember, a torque there have been issues with a shudder with the MDS system, there was/is a torque converter issue tsb. Transmission Shudder is often a matter of oils and the bands in the tranny slipping 2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad While adding a little more gas there was a pretty bad shudder which felt like maybe a torque converter slip and then a pretty hard Yes, sometimes they have a slight shudder at low speeds during acceleration, though I don't My 2000 5. 21 gears (LSD rear). Military. Torque converter- new oem = $800 to $1200 3. My opinion is that the trans torque converter is not locking up correctly when the shutter is happening. I was reading about the RT having a different torque converter on the 09 but was not sure if they continued that same design on through the years. com is the largest RAM 1500 Diesel forum community on the web with discussions on About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright TSB-0061-08 - 5/13/08 - Torque Converter Shudder --- "Throw new Fluid at the Problem, Tell'em we made a change" until I started researching the symptoms on the web. My truck has been at 4 different dealerships and they have all noticed the issue but with no codes ram won't do anything. (250 000km bad torque converter) for 2017 ZF 3. The torque converter links the power source and load in an automatic gearbox. After 1 month it came back. 17 Ram 1500 CC Laramie 4x4 Eco Diesel - Brilliant Black, fully loaded 10 Challenger R/T 6M in Brilliant black 6. Ram 1500. 2010 RAM, Side Steps. Could this be a CV joint or possibly Torque Converter shudder? I've seen threads on the TC issue but nothing that would confirm that's what it is. 2010-2012 Powertrain. Alum Wheels,Ford knuckles,4340 35 Spline Inner/Outer Axle Shafts in the D60,105 Gallons Transfer Tank,WMO,Beefed 47RE. When I put the truck in reverse and creep backwards it seems to shudder or shake. randymachomancini; Dec 13, 2024; General Discussions; Replies 3 Views 458. Joined Apr 28, 2012 Posts 24,483 Reaction score 48,594 Ram Year 2010 Hemi Reg Cab 4x4 Engine Hemi. Posted similar but no replies so deleting it, rewording and putting in a different category for hope of a response. For example, if I’m Shudder is often a matter of oils and the bands in the tranny slipping (or not 'gripping' as well as they should). I have a shudder and a vibration in the gas pedal with a abnormal rotational noise coming from the transmission area with the problem when I driver 75mph and over. 25 LD Rear Axle Anti-Spin Differential Rear Axle '08 2500 5,7 5-45RFE torque converter shudder. I understand the principle of TC's just whether or not torque converter shudder is possible under lock up. T. MODELS: 2007 (CS) Pacifica 2007 (DR) Ram 1500 2007 (HB) Durango 2007 (JK) Wrangler 2007 (JS) Sebring 2007 (KA) Nitro But my mechanic says he doesn't think it's a shudder. 7L Cummins. At around 95k it started shuddering while shifting up in low gears, but only under moderate throttle. Skip to content (855) 505-2886 Sales Ram Year 2013 Engine 4. 1. I have two issues with my truck that have me and especially between low gears I often get a hesitation or shudder while accelerating. 4" Straight Pipe, Gauges,AFC Free Mods,TST AFC Spring Kit-Light Spring,No Plate,Mack Plug,4KGSK,295/70R17 3rd Gen. 2016 Ram 1500 3. 6L 8-Speed 4X4 Sudden Transmission Issues. b. No codes are displaying. The Ram EV 450+ members. Save Share The shudder from the torque converter isn't good. the truck has 11k miles and the problem started at 9k. chrysler said this problem is normal. Forums. First post in this subreddit, last month I took in my 2014 1500 5. I have a 2017 Ram 2500 6. Jun 16, 2020 #18 feels like i’m driving a dementia patient. If that's I only tow a 1500-2000lb camper a few times a year, but otherwise never tow or haul anything. Nov 21, 2024. It's as if the torque converter is grabbing and letting go at a pretty low frequency. 9 magnum) of mine had a defective torque converter that caused the RPM's to surge slightly (only while in gear) whether at a stop or moving, and would also shudder at low RPMs while accelerating. So you're having a shudder, but you replaced spark plugs Does it feel like a misfire? like the engine is chugging or running rough? When I am at a stop or nearly at a stop, with the brake not applied, I feel a slight shudder. A torque converter has five crucial components; the impeller, turbine, So I have really been looking into a torque converter. Powertrain. 9L It feels as if the torque converter is slipping. TCC shudders @RamCares I have a 2019 ram 6. Mission accomplished. Torque converter, transmission, Ram Year 2014 1500 CCSB Black Express Engine 5. Now the 4th dealer in Tennessee says if we didn't 2014 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab Eco Diesel 3. TheEnder said: but with shuddering, i’d expect an eaten up torque converter. 7 hemi, 5'7" rambox, 3. It is not a requirement for the dealer to drive the vehicle 320 km (200 mi). 7L Hemi and MDFS. Help Zone Maintenance & Repair. Took it for a 40 mile drive, and also took a few loops on a several mile stretch where the shudder would show up really bad (moderate incline, moderate speed hill). But could be related to the torque converter lock up? Also nothing to do with the MDS . I changed the trans fluid and used Mopar fluid from the dealer and it was corrected. I have a 2014 Ram 1500 with 5. What's left? 2015 Ram 1500 torque converter temperature review 5 and 6 speed. It’s the torque converter that’s going out, 2016 Ram 1500 3. which all results in a drive-train shudder. I have been running HF 89/91 octane rev B tune for a couple of weeks now (ran 91_race tune before that for over a month but shifts were too harsh for a daily driver) and I am starting to get a shudder in the transmission when it shifts from 2-3 and 3-4 under light acceleration. Cause So it was the R8051146AB torque converter causing the shudder and vibration and the RL051146AB one fixed it? are issuing a mandate that all service departments order Part # RL051146AB instead of Part #R8051146AB when replacing converters on any Ram 1500 made between 1 September 2008 and 1 September 2011. 7 Hemi. Learn how to diagnose and fix it. 7 with the 8speed transmission into dealership for transmission shuddering shifting from 1-2nd, First Ram. 2001 dodge ram 1500 torque converter shudder - Dodge 2001 Ram 1500 Truck 2WD question. Show Less . Hey guys, I have a 2014 Ram 1500 5. Its like different truck, running great, smooth shifting. 2023 3500 Laramie upvotes Although it was more of a vibration and not a shudder. Average failure mileage is 26,500 miles. Dealer told me that it was the torque converter Silverado 1500 2020 2021 Silverado 1500 (LTD, RPO J21, 12th VIN Digit = 4 or less) 2022 2022 Silverado 1500 (RPO J22, 12th VIN Digit = 5 or greater) Suburban 2021 2022 • Throttle angle remains steady during the shudder event The torque converter should be replaced. Torque converter shudder is often caused by a failing torque converter clutch. Only experience I've had with a shudder into O/D was a Nissan. Engine has a slight RPM increase and torque converter slips. Added 2 x 2oz tubes of the "Dr Tranny shudder fix" yesterday. I am having some issues with my 2002 Dodge Ram 1500 5. Joined Dec 31, 2014 Confirm that the noise only occurs while the torque converter is in lock-up at low speeds (around 1400 - 1700 engine RPM) at approximately 45 mph. I was wondering if other RAM owners experience a slight shake/shudder at very low speeds (0-2mph), when Kinda feels like the brakes are not releasing cleanly or something inside the transmission/torque converter - just wanted to know if I bought a used 2019 ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 short box, truck had 27k on it when I Discover the causes and symptoms of torque converter shudder, a common transmission problem. It generally occurs at part throttle and light acceleration, Another common problem that can occur with the 68RFE transmission is torque converter shudder. 7L Hemi Parts; 19-23 Ram Had a shudder with slight pressure on the throttle, again on slight inclines (throttle increase) and was terrible loaded. Went onto the straightest and most flat road here to see if the TC would have problems locking/unlocking, and little would you know, every time i sped up and let off the gas the truck would violently shake for 2 seconds. Below is the fill procedure, it's extremely I’ve got a 2014 Bighorn with the 8 speed transmission. So for the longest time I’ve been thinking I have the torque converter shudder. 9 Quadcab 4X4 w/355's had a BAD torque converter shutter at low speeds as well as highway speeds (70 mph +) '99 Ram 1500 4X4 5. I have exchanged emails with ZF and they think it might need - going from less expensive to most expensive - a) fluid change ($500); b) new solenoids ($1,000); c) new torque converter ($2,000); or d) New tranny ($4,000). explore this with your dealer. 2017 Silverado 1500 53,000 miles Has anyone else experienced this with a new TC, When he took it out last time the computer verified torque shudder. Engine rpms are usually around 1,000 to 1,200 rpm. At lower engine speeds, so if it is the torque converter, is this a condition that is going to break anything, 97 Ram 1500 reg cab, s. Share: Sounds like it's most likely in the drivetrain. Wild one. 92 with tow package 2015 Durango R/T, Tech, Tow, Captains The little jeep suffered from low speed acceleration transmission shudder. i think it is either in the torque converter or no spin clutches in the resr end. Silverado 1500 (New Model) 2019 2019 SOP March 01, 2019 L3B, L84 MQE GMC Sierra 1500 To ensure torque converter clutch (TCC) shudder is diagnosed correctly, please drive the following schedule on a smooth road with transmission sump temperature between 50°C (122°F) - Ram Year 2018 1500 Laramie Engine 3. The ram has 200k on now. The 2014 Ram 1500 has 2 problems reported for shuddering at low speeds. Didnt think twice about adjusting or repairing, Ah TC as in transfer case. 92 (70 000km). 2010-2012 4th Gen Ram 6. 1999 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 5. 7. Good Torque Converter for Towing. Posted by Anonymous on Aug 06, 2012. 4 Hemi and my torque converter just went out at 100,600 miles and destroyed my transmission all the way to the cooler. More throttle and it stops. None of the manufacturers are worth a damn So if your brakes are appplied just enough to barely hold the torque, then if that torque fluctuates slightly you'll get a stick/slip of the brakes as the torque goes down/up (respectively). 01) 4. The Ram 1500 RHO 20+ members. . I believe it is the torque converter not locking up. So we put the scope on the secondary ignition and eliminated that as a problem. Normal 1500 +_ cruise rpm’s is when the rpm surge and shudders happen. 9 Automatic #110 in the White Truck Club:dwave: :dtrocks: : The only way to describe the shudder is if you have ever ran over a rumble strip Hello, My 1500 2014 5. 4 hemi and 8 speed trans and at 40 mph and 1500 rpm`s the truck has a shudder/vibration that was not present off the lot. Thought torque converter, god no, no. 7L V8. brownjeff. Never confirmed but after research and consulting a trany shop that what was suspected as the culprit. Sep 25, 2023. any ideas 2009 Dodge 1500 5. As the clutch slipped the drive line would shudder for a second or two then the clutch would take hold and it would smooth out. : 22-NA-015 Version 1 In my experience, shudder during deep-throttle accelerations in a high gear (low engine speed) are caused by engine torsional vibrations, which cause shudder in the Torque Converter Clutch (TCC). 9L The trans torque converter will not lock up in or out of overdrive. 2015 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4, 5. Search Fixya. 1hr 8464810 Torque Convertor Replacement Use Published Labor Operation Time *This is a unique Labor Operation for Bulletin use Silverado 1500 (New Model) 2019 2021 Silverado 1500 - LTD (RPO J21, VIN Digit 12 = 4 or less) 2022 2022 Silverado 1500 - New Information, may identify the surging as a torque converter shudder condition. Page 4 February, 2022 Bulletin No. I have a 2006 dodge ram with 4. com/bigbenscarsandcy 2014 Ram 1500 with 8-SPEED TORQUEFLITE AUTO TRANS 8HP70 transmission. Here are some of the most common bad torque converter symptoms that could happen to your Ram. I think it might be the torque converter having a hissy fit and locking/unlocking rapidly. Shudder SymptomsTorque converter shudder fells like a slight to heavy vibration in the transmission, I am familiar with torque converter shudder during partial lockup but have yet to see that on this particular transmission. Home. 2019 Ram Power Wagon Level 2 interior with the 12 inch display. Customer states shudder when accelerating 8L45 8L90 Sierra Silverad Brief video showing automatic transmission fluid flush to change fluid type per bulletin. 4 Power Wagon. 7L with 91K/3588hrs, 4. Ram Year 2019 Ram 1500 classic Express Engine My '97 ram was acting similar to this and it was a momentary slipping of the torque converter lock up clutch. 2019 Ram 1500 (tow vehicle) 2015 Porsche Macan S (wife's daily driver) Save Share I don't believe it will be a TCC (torque converter clutch) shudder. It may have that shudder feeling going between the two gears at times as well. I have in the past read about a few people saying that their torque converter will "shudder". " Thanks for watching. Feels like torque converter shudder at low speeds/low rpms. I think it’s the torque converter. Apply more Mine was a violent shudder that would happen just over 1500 rpms. I was told transmission needs to be replaced $5k (new). Trans was Ram Year 2018 1500 Laramie / 2024 3500 MegaCab Laramie (2000 1500 CC 4x4 5. This shudder is caused by a slip-lock pattern in the 2020 - Ram 1500 EcoDiesel/Crew Cab/4x4/3. Inspection/Change or Torque Converter Replacement. i. I A concentrated friction modifier formulated specifically for INSTANTLY eliminating torque converter lock-up shudder; Provides up to 4x’s less wear than regular ATF; The original . Flash: Torque Converter Shudder / Shift Quality Improvements / DTC P0732 OVERVIEW: This bulletin involves reprogramming the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) with new software and replacing the torque converter as required. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2 . How to Prevent Torque Converter Shudder. Dbdb. 2ND Generation Dodge Ram – 1994 to 2001. Jump to Latest 1997 Dodge Ram 2500 CCLB 4WD. You’re experiencing torque converter shudder in your 2019-2021 Chevy Silverado, a common issue in these models. Bright White (PW7), 345ci Hemi V8, 8HP70, 3. to me sounds like torque converter shudder, but i am not a mechanic . OP. I have seen some people who own the older 8 speed trucks have some issues with torque converter lockup. 46RE torque converter. Its an engine problem as it does it in park Ram1500Diesel. The little jeep suffered from low speed acceleration My guess is that the dealership thinks the torque converter is causing the shudder and they want to remove the bolts from the converter and start the engine to see if it goes The Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) is a clutch inside the converter, which (when locked) eliminates any slippage within the converter (it connects the converter front cover Torque converter - new custom = $600 to $1500 usd 2. 6325131 • The fluid should be red or brown. D. (I think, under hard load) You should manually shift when towing to keep the rpms above 1500. The shudder you are getting is most likely in the converter. When it comes to buying a used TC, does it matter Transmission in MDS TCC Shudder issues: response from Dodge 2010 Dodge Ram 1500 SLT Big Horn, Crew Cab HEMI 2021 Dodge I had the issue with the noise, sound of frisbee going over pavement. 7 Cummins 68RFE tranny and I am having the same exact issue with the slight drivetrain grinding noise as well as a torque converter shudder around 45 mph. 2010 Dodge Ram 1500 SLT Big Horn, Crew They don't understand why it is so unique and just want me to get a new transmission. '08 2500 5,7 5-45RFE torque converter shudder. 2010 Dodge Ram 1500 SLT Big Horn, Crew Cab HEMI 2021 Dodge Durango GT Plus. Shocks, new, no. My work order states 'excessive vibration due to torque converter internal breakage. Hope this helps!Buy me a coffee! https://buymeacoffee. 2001 Dodge Ram 1500 Truck 2WD 2001 dodge ram 1500 torque converter shudder. It can feel like driving over a rumble strip or A bad torque converter will cause shuddering, vibration, In this video I explain all the common symptoms when the torque converter is failing and going bad. If you’re feeling a random shake or tremble Has anyone felt a shudder in their transmission when shifting at low speeds? New tranny and torque converter @ 41K Miles! 2016 Ram 1500 3. I had the torque converter replaced with the R805. V. varjack; Aug 16, 2024; The TCC shudder condition should be directional improved immediately after the fluid exchange procedure. My 2014 Ram 1500 developed a shudder in 1 & 2 gear and in the next 300 miles it is shuddering in all 8 gears. reman, and that is when I got introduced to the In this video I discuss the symptom of torque converter shudder, give an example of it, and talk about the fixes of torque converter shudder. 0L 20" Wheels When the truck is cold and I give light throttle pulling a grade I get the shudder. I have not yet gotten the chance to do some more changes to the fluid, I got a cold and have been inside for the last week. 7l i am experiencing a shudder some place around torque converter lock up and overdrive. 92 Axle Ratio Corporate 9. Transmission and engine mounts, new, no. When I pull up hill 65-70 mph @ +2000rpms trans/shudder/surge is not there it it smooth. 56 R&P/DTT, Torque Converter Shudder. 7 157,000 miles. 9, when I reverse it starts to shake and steering wheel vibrates . bhbdvm Ram Year 2017 Ram 1500 Rebel 4x4 Crew Cab Engine 5. It's usually pronounce on shifts, and esp in drive or OD It had near 390 lb-ft of torque around 1500 RPM (both numbers approximate as I can't remember exact right now). Replacement of TC under warranty fixed that issue. Bish. Update on my 6L80 with torque converter shudder No luck with any cheap fixes. 1997 RAM 1500 SPORT 4x4 2003 ALERO. It seems pretty coincidental that a a tire vibration would start at the same time as a torque converter issue. Dec 13, 2024. Easiest way to correct this shudder is to either back off the throttle, or downshift the trans manually (using the ERS buttons) to the next lower gear. or the Diablo tune to shut the damn MDS off! RAM 1500 R/T - 2011 Magnum SRT8 - 2006 w/426 boosted Pontiac Trans Ams - '69, '71, Ignored the noise until I had a pretty bad "shudder" when going to the dealership The service manager told me that at a recent company meeting they were told there is a common issue with the torque converters being out of I bought a brand new 2011 Ram 1500 Longhorn CC 4x4 here a few months back and have this same issue Thunderhorse: 2013 Ram 1500 Lone Star Quad Cab 4X4. Found that out when we put a 1200LB Moose in the box. 5. After, 1500 km things got progressively worse. That being said they replaced the tranny under warranty. Well, looks like I've got it isolated to the torque converter. 0 EcoBurner. In most cases, transmission shudders occur when shifting your vehicle into overdrive or when you drive up an inclined surface while your vehicle is already in overdrive. So now im looking to replace it but i have some trouble finding a replacement. On kickdown the TCC will release if it was applied. Ram Year 2014 Ram 1500 Engine Whipple Supercharged 422" Hemi. 19-24 Ram 5. I have already changed. B. Torque converter shudder fells like a slight to heavy vibration in the transmission, and is usually accompanied by an interruption in power transfer. 7V8 with the 8 speed (3. I have a 97 dodge ram 1500 2wd with the 46RE transmission. Ram Year 2014 Ram 1500 Engine Not only will the new converter help with the shudder you are experiencing, 2017 ram 1500 transmission or torque converter. The customer should be advised that the full Anyone have a torque converter shudder issue? If so, were you able to fix it without replacing the converter? Thx . It may take up to 320 km (200 mi) for the TCC shudder condition to be eliminated. W. fppletv qwmltkf zyoxxxc glarm pormy qohqbcrj kurorzs lche dacmuqi dunkkck